Has Israel committed war crimes in fighting the Palestinians? What the Geneva Protocols Really Says

It may all just have to wait until the world produces another Emile Zola. (That didn't come entirely out of the blue - I just rewatched the classic movie The Life of Emile Zola.) It's an interesting parallel here, in that Dreyfus, a Jew, is unjustly convicted for another's treason. Is there anyone with universal credibility and charisma who truly stands up for truth and justice in our present world, or just a lot of political posturing?

...but that will only occur when mid-east peace is more attractive to American politicians than Jewish votes and campaign contributions.

IMO you have now displayed your vulnerability to propaganda. Jewish votes are mininal at best, and their campaign contributions are a drop in the bucket compared to those from Arab interests, which includes the promises of support after the polititians leave office.

Israeli influence even had an American president order the sinking of an American warship (USS Liberty) in order to create a casus belli to enter the war on the side of our Jewish ally.

That could conceivably be the most ridiculous statement I have ever seen on Newsvine. In the circumstances I don't intend to carry on any further dialogue on this seed.

rodney,

Johnson and McNamara told those heading the Navy's inquiry to "conclude that the attack was a case of 'mistaken identity' despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary."

that's a far cry from

...an American president order the sinking of an American warship...

The fact is that the President did not ORDER the ship to be sunk. I had thought by the word sunk you had meant it to mean to be attacked. He did not order it to be attacked. The new definition in my case is that I forgot I wrote that and then later commented on this seed. Sorry, I guess I didn't keep my word. As the seeder, you should be happy that people continue to comment. You could get rich. (sarc)

Come on, Rodney, you really are stretching it.

don't forget the arab interests in the gulf are happy to have a non muslim enemy in israel to kjeep attention away from their non muslim behaviors (usury, etc) and how far into bed they are with the American Satan. Just like Steve Earle said, just another poor boy fighting a rich man's war .... the sad truth is that killing poor people, whether jewish, christina, muslim or hindi is a very profitable enterprise - thats really what this is about - not religion, not terror, not hate - money.

It's also about oil and world dominance.

So I guess we can sum it up as being about money, oil, power and resources. That's what empires have been looking for since the history of empires.

All the same thing - money is irrelevant when you control the creation of it. Its the power to control the production - basically slavery of the rest - that is key. Oil is just another form of money, but one which you actually have to produce unlike the scarps of paper we think of as money.

Wars happened between states.

Yes..and how convenient that must be for Hamas, Hezbollah, and especially their Master-the State of Iran.

If I had said something about any other race or religion you wouldn't have had a problem. The subject of Jews is always touchy, and I don't understand why. Why are the Jews so special when many others went through hardships worse than that and never complained, they just took what they had and worked at a better tomorrow even knowing they were pissed because they got screwed they still sucked it up and lived their lives instead of playing the race and or religion card to gain an advantage. The Jews got benefits for what they went through. Black people in America went through worse than the Jews and for several hundred years at that and they never got special rights out of it, just the equal rights they were originally given in the constitution. You can't be sensitive about every single person's feelings; that wouldn't be right at all because people suffer when you over compensate for something you didn't even do. That means you feed one group more than the other and that is favoritism which is bad news in modern politics.

You can't be sensitive about every single person's feelings;

That would be a good goal to start with. It could actually lead to the world being a much more humane place.

Watch yourself. They can use use your kindness against you. Being humane in the sense you want consumes resources and time. Bettering your own people is the best thing do since taking care of everybody is not possible. That will only help spread pestilence and disease, both of which are uncompromising and will eventually kill you. A dead person can not make a difference because in death your voice is forever silenced and your legacy is all that exists.

Rod- You massively inflated the numbers. 6 billion is what you just posted. More like 6 million is the actual number. BIG DIFFERENCE! Since 6 billion is the population of the world today (that includes every single census available person combined with an educated guess of the unknown).

Defense budgets will do that to you. They have way too many zeros to work with.

The Murder of 6,000,000,000 Jews is always touchy.

It's all History, it's over and done with, that doesn't give them the right to commit the same crimes against another. Palestinian had open elections, what the World wanted, live with it and work it out. Hiroshima and Nagasaki, 250 thousand of innocent, same difference, only a different reason. China, Mao was responsible for about 40 million total deaths of which most were lost during the Great Leap Forward "which created a famine that killed some 30 million. History can produce many time of mass murder. Pick a war, any side and any country. America, 1400's-2010, killed millions of indigenous people.

Finishing up on the "touchy" subject. The issue was blown out of proportion by the media trying to gather support for the side we chose. You can't sideline others for the wants and complaints of the few. In war, atrocities are guaranteed to happen. This was just the most publicized. So I guess (under that ideology) the Vietcong, DPRK, and Iranians owe us a piece of land and a lot of money for the imprisonment and torture of Americans.

No need for a copy (for future reference: they send me one automatically after being censored) just say what bothers you so I can avoid being censored again. Deal?

Now that that is cleared up I can move on. What is the ideology behind human shields in Arab culture. They always seem to be dressed in civilian clothes to make everybody look bad. At least the war is where it started and not back home. I say burn them out !!! Napalm Style.

Iran used the neutrality of the Iranian Red Crescent to smuggle agents and weapons into Lebanon during Israel's 2006 with Hezbollah, U.S. diplomatic cables released by WikiLeaks revealed on Sunday.

The IRC source added that medical staff in Iran had seen missiles on a plane destined for Lebanon while delivering medical supplies to the airport, and that the "plane was allegedly 'half full' prior to the arrival of any medical supplies."

In addition, the source revealed that an IRC hospital in southern Lebanon was handed over to Hezbollah control, alleging that "Hassan Nasrallah had asked Supreme Leader Khamenei to allow Hezbollah to run the hospital during Dr. [Mohammad Reza] Noorbala's tenure as IRC president."Link

The author is not correct in his evaluation - there is no war. Wars happened between states

Convenient, indeed.

Yes, but remember, no one declares war anymore. Furthermore, the GC was written at a time when wars were between similar powered states. None of Israels enemies can really declare an open war with soldier and fronts and hope to win - certainly not the Palestinians - what is interesting is none of those countries who whine about war crimes all the time have rewritten the GC to actually represent modern warfare ..... I mean several of the trials at Gitmo are basically murder trials for what was a combat situation. So if a taliban guy tosses a grenade at a GI attacking his camp he is a murderer, but the GI who shots 3 Taliban is not? Remember, we are attacking them, sometimes not even in Afghanistan ....

Exactly, so if the GC only applies to "declared war" why bother?

So if a taliban guy tosses a grenade at a GI attacking his camp he is a murderer, but the GI who shots 3 Taliban is not?

Yeah it doesn't make sense either. I'm not defending the Taliban. Many of them behave quite brutally against civilians. But a Taliban militant killing a US soldier shouldn't be a war crime. Neither should a US soldier killing a Taliban militant.

but since we never declared war against the taliban, and are, in fact, occupying thier country at present what does that make the US service personnel there ... the probblem is we read this and say the Americans are soldiers and the taliban are terrorist ... and wonder why no one likes us?

And thus by harboring blackwater and the cia Pakistan, NK Iraq, or Iran can attack us? We are back to the fact that the first world has bent the laws to justify their own version of the events. Was the Taliban actively involved in 9/11? Frankly, given that we had to go to gitmo and torture people to involve Osama in it, it seems hard to believe we could have a direct link between the Taliban and 9/11 .... and was the Taliban really the government? I mean this starts to fall apart fast.

The simple fact is that the top 1% of the worlds population controls the rest of the world. They have "bought" all the things of value (resources, land) and exhibit control through the first world military. For those in the USA, it would surprise you to know that in much of the 3rd world OBL is a hero ..... because he attacked the USA. This is not a muslim thing, not a political thing, this is a 1st world vs 3rd world thing.

Now we need to come to terms with the fact that we abused and exploited most of the world for the last 200 years, and while we got rich and powerful, they've suffered. Today, they control most of the worlds resources (we claim to own them), most of the people, and a whole lot of anger. We have been able to keep communism out, but at the cost of placing dictators and police states in most of these countries ..... Now we have religious wars in Asia, new socialism in South America, Civil war in Africa - Now war is good for banks and corporations, but can we keep ourselves protected forever?

Dumb question...... What time is it in your part of the world?

2:03AM here, I need my sleep so don't start asking dumb questions like that. I hope to stay on subject tomorrow. Politicians are easy to replace, but a good, loyal person is hard to come by these days. The cowards are the ones who hide behind their own people and fight for an unjust cause. I've kind of been turned sour by the way things happen in the world, that explains why I sound so harsh all of the time. Nothing ever gets done using words as an answer for a problem that demands actions. Anyways, Enjoy that Turkey:) I hope I didn't keep you up too late.

Nothing good can come out of being pushed into a small corner with no way out except up. Building an industrious army eats up a lot of capital. So screwing a few people over is necessary to keep a nation, surrounded by enemies, safe. Palestine should not be recognized as an independent nation as it will only breed more hatred for the rest of us and cost us money to send emergency aid because they can't feed themselves.

Israel was created to be "A homeland for the Jews" if for no other reason because of the incessant history of their being attacked, slandered, tortured, demonized, deported, discriminated against, gassed and fried, and villified sort of like a lot of Newsviners like to do. It can only remain a safe haven as long as it remains the homeland for the Jews. Of course it is the aim of those whose hatred shows up on Newsvine so often, to side with the factions that would prevent Jews from maintaining Israel as a Jewish State.

Buzz,

Of course you are right!

Alpha,

The Jews are probably the only humans left who truly believe what was imparted to them 3,800 years ago. I think that alone is worth preserving.

It seems to be more than religion, it has also proven itself throughout history to be a huge burden, sort of like always having to wear the yellow star, and the homeland is the only way to end that. You see, alpha, you have no concept of what it was like to want to ski, and the only local place to ski was a club with a sign in front that said "No Jews Allowed", or the local golf club that went a little further to say "No Dogs or Jews Allowed" (in that order of respect) or to look at the title of homes in certain areas where there were restrictions against selling to Jews, or to want to spend some time in a public park and being attacked by a bunch of tough youths, or to live in a country, when the Jews were desperate to escape from Germany, where the Prime Minister was asked how many he would allow to immigrate his reply was "None is too many". Did you ever have the experience of being beaten up as a little kid in your schoolyard only because you're a Jew, and then the teachers and principal will do nothing about it? Any idea what it feels like when nobody will pick you for a make-up baseball game team? Do you really think society has changed? Because of PC they're just more quiet about it. Get the picture yet, Alpha, or do you want more? The Olympics, dedicated to peace and co-operation among nations, dedicated to peaceful competition, and then to be an Israeli athlete in Munich. (I just notice that Fatah is again honouring and celebrating the accomplishments of the mastermind of the Munich slaughter.) Okay, more. Driving down to Miami and trying to check into Arthur Godrey's Kenilworth Hotel - ever watch the movie Gentlemen's Agreement? There it was. So why is it, Alpha, that Jews want to have a tiny, such a tiny sliver of land in this world where the word "Jew" is not spoken as a swear word? Can you answer that?

Buzz,

Accurately put. There is no denying any of your points. The Jews are the most peace loving people on earth, and they have been driven to their present state of security by suicide bombers and missiles. It's a matter of survival. With the Arabs, it a matter of hate and jealousy. Someone from the Palestinians must recognize their present strategy is doing them no good, and that leader must lead the Palestinian people to peace by recognizing Israel as a Sovereign, Jewish State. Then there can be deals.

As a matter of fact I do have a response. This has been turned into a fight over the holy land in which everybody thinks they deserve. By Inserting the Jewish people into the lands where Arabs have traditionally fought everybody over, we have created the perfect storm in which Nations must now choose to back one of two religions because ignoranttwats created some sort of stigma over who the land rightfully belongs to instead of having it be neutral grounds like it should be. OK, to put things bluntly, Arabs don't have but rocks for brains (which explains why they are so unfriendly) and the Jews are master complainers. The two are condemned to bicker and fight forever because they think they have a GOD given right to something. This is why religion so deeply divides the world, no book of fairy tales (holy book) ever has the same story; so people will fight over which story book they think is better.

The UN created Israel. Live with it.

UN= Usually Nothing (as in: Usually nothing gets done when we get together). The UN has a knack for getting into other people's business. It is more detrimental than good. Setting rules does nothing but hurt the person who creates them. Kind of like Israel and the Arabs biting the hand that feeds them.

The real question is whether Israel behaved disproportionately for the military advantage gained from their actions. In that case and as plenty of evidence shows, Israel committed war crimes in Gaza.

What war crimes? When the public is behaving like terrorists expect to be treated like them. If the Palestinians don't like what is going on then step up to the plate and be a man and force the terrorists out of Gaza if they wish to be treated better. No crimes were committed, because it is WAR, there are no rules in WAR. Plus I don't think they pushed any Palestinians into a retrofitted pizza oven so nothing is really wrong with that picture unless you consider the Palestinians lack of effort to prove they are deserving of any respect.

Yes, the UN (right or wrong) gave the Jews the land for a sovereign state, and the Jewish military now protects that legal deed of land, The only option the Arabs have is to fight for the land, and we now know the Arab's cowardess when it comes to war. They run at the first hint of danger.

I guess Israel will do whatever Israel wants until the Arabs grow brains and realize they must recognize Israel will be a Jewish State for a very long time. Otherwise, they get nothing.

The U.N. offered the Arabs the same deal they offered Israel through the partition plan that the majority of Arabs at the time rejected: a territory over which they could self-rule as a sovereign nation state. The minority of Arabs who did agree to it ended up in Israel where they enjoy far more rights and freedoms than Arabs living anywhere in the Arab world. The overwhelming majority of Arab Israeli citizens living within Israel have reiterated in poll after poll that they'd prefer to remain in Israel even if an independent Palestinian state were to be created. They're not stupid.

there are no rules in WAR

That's completely false.

Yes, the UN (right or wrong) gave the Jews the land for a sovereign state, and the Jewish military now protects that legal deed of land, The only option the Arabs have is to fight for the land, and we now know the Arab's cowardess when it comes to war. They run at the first hint of danger.

I have no idea why that is a response to my comment.

The U.N. offered the Arabs the same deal they offered Israel through the partition plan that the majority of Arabs at the time rejected

No. They offered 33% of the people (the Jews) 56% of the land while offering 67% of the people (the Arabs) 44% of the land. So it wasn't in any way the "same deal" unless you don't know what the word same means.

The minority of Arabs who did agree to it ended up in Israel where they enjoy far more rights and freedoms than Arabs living anywhere in the Arab world

The minority of Palestinians that remained in Israel were lucky enough to not have been ethnically cleansed and now they live in Israel as second class citizens.

BUT all this is a digression from both my original comment and the seed.

Yes, the Arabs will be treated as second class citizens because of their savage nature and general hate for other races and religions.

That's just plain racist.

I will win because I understand war has no rules

No, you think that war has no rules. It does. Rodney is a veteran. You can ask him yourself.

No. They offered 33% of the people (the Jews) 56% of the land while offering 67% of the people (the Arabs) 44% of the land. So it wasn't in any way the "same deal" unless you don't know what the word same means.

Just curious Squidward. Would you know what percentages of those percentages were unarable desert, like, say, the Sinai?

Would you know what percentages of those percentages were unarable desert, like, say, the Sinai?

Well, none of it was the Sinai since it belonged to Egypt. A big part of the land allotted to the Jewish state was the Negev, but they also got 2/3 of the coastline and sole access to the Red Sea and they were allocated fertile lands. It wasn't all desert.

How is that racist when that is the only region in the world where religion is still used to justify a war.

Your comment being collapsed should tell you something.

Your comment being collapsed should tell you something.

It tells me you deny the truth and tend to toot your own horn a little too much.

I didn't toot my own horn nor did I deny the truth. You made a racist comment about the "savage nature" of Arabs and it got rightfully collapsed. You got what you deserved. It's also slowly becoming more and more evident you're a rereg though I can't remember the initial username you had.

I am not a rereg as you put it. It isn't racist. History tells the story of the Arabs and the way they wage war of senseless reasoning. Examples include: the Battle of Thermopylae, The Crusades (in which the Arabs violently fought back and murdered the infadel and or sold them into slavery as to supposedly protect their religious ideals), The Lebanon Wars of 1975 and 2006 (also don't forget the 1983 Beruit bombing in which many US soldiers were killed), the terrorist attacks [resulting from Arabs using religion as a basis for justifying attacks like the 9/11 attacks (don't forget about the first failed attempt to bring down the towers) and London train Bombings], and the Six-Day War. ETC ETC ETC. You say I got what I deserve. Well you are getting the response you deserve.

alpha1echo010,

#16.4 - Fri Nov 26, 2010 11:39 PM GMT

Are those examples figments of imagination or facts – do you have supportive sources?

Thank you

Are those examples figments of imagination or facts – do you have supportive sources?

Facts backed up by several sources. These events did happen, didn't you ever read your history book? Or live through any one of those days in modern history??? The Arabs caused these incidents. Google any of these subjects or do some old fashioned research if these sources are not enough because this stuff is common knowledge people. You should know this.

------Internet Sources----------

http://www.sixdaywar.org/

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/Lebanon_War.html

http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2008/february/tradebom_022608

http://www.defense.gov/home/features/2008/1008_beirut/

ETC ETC ETC

---------Koran Proof of authorizing the killing of infidels (non believers of their religion)----------

http://www.newwave.net/~haught/Koran.html

You guys keep arguing things that are fifty years old or ancient history. Can we keep the discussion in the here and now? That's really all that counts. You can't take back the Crusades or the UN decision ... it's done. Now we have a new reality that produces an ongoing conflict.

The killing needs to stop.

The Arabs need to recognize the Sovereign Jewish State of Israel.

The Israelis need to give back most of the West Bank land and build a corridor to connect the two parts of what can be Palestine ... in exchange for uncontested Israeli ownership of Jerusalem.

Both sides need to sign a binding, non aggression pact.

The killing needs to stop.The Arabs need to recognize the Sovereign Jewish State of Israel.The Israelis need to give back most of the West Bank land and build a corridor to connect the two parts of what can be Palestine ... in exchange for uncontested Israeli ownership of Jerusalem. Both sides need to sign a binding, non aggression pact

Good luck with that, history will tell you that things like this never happen with out more bloodshed. The Jews want more space and the Arabs want them out so one side is going to win and the other is going to disappear and the loser isn't going to be Israel because they have nowhere else to go.

History tells the story of the Arabs and the way they wage war of senseless reasoning

History will tell you about any group of people and how much war they've waged. That doesn't warrant generalizing about a whole group of people and saying that they naturally "savage". That's racist. Your comment got collapsed. You deserved it and now you're mad about it because someone called you out about your racist statement.

... and finally, The bombing of the Marine Corps BLT HQ (BTW Marines are not called soldiers, they are Marines) had nothing to with religion, it everthing to due with broken promises made by the Reagan administration, I know, I was there.

If they truly are blowing up people because of broken promises then these modern day attacks wouldn't have happened. We are full filling our only promise we made to the terrorists and that promise is of death to them. It is nice to find out that what the Army boys say is true about the Marines. I think I'll hold that thought for now. Marines do have a problem with accepting the fact they are only foot SOLDIERS in the US military. When the Army doesn't want to lose any men, just call in the marines to be a human shield for them. Fairly easy concept to understand, right???

That "logic" only works if you think that every attack has the same reason. Again, ignorance dominates your view....and your insults of the Marine Corps says more about you than it does about us.

Marines are some of the most cocky egotistical people you can run into. You can't even be cordial and respectful enough to except the complement of being called a soldier. People respect other people who can respectfully accept what they are given no matter how big or small it is. A compliment is a compliment and they are free and can be retracted at the user's discretion. As far as I am concerned the Arabs will lose and I have no doubts in my confidence the Israelis will come out Victorious because the Germans are on their side this time around.

Rodney,

Re: 16.11

I think you underestimate Israel's need for Arab recognition and peace for its people. Washington has it all wrong, IMO. If Israel can get recognition and Jerusalem (for all the trouble), I believe they would give back the Occupied Territories as they did the Sinai to Egypt in exchange for recognition. They have not fought since then (32 years), and, in fact, they have become good trading partners and coordinate on security in Gaza.

I see you have never met a fighter pilot, but that is not a surprise

It is normal for people with such a high level of mathematical inelegance to be super cocky, they have the ordinance and special treatment to back it up. I can't argue with a fighter pilot's ego because it comes natural to them and they get preferential treatment in most cases so getting into an argument most likely will result in a negative outcome because they are the fortunate ones who are put over everyone else. Now Marines on the other hand..... they are cocky because they think they are entitled to something before they earn it. And in some cases they think they can kick somebody's ass even though the other person has 10x the skills the marine does. Tell your fellow marines to calm down before they get shipped to some place in the middle of no where defending a coffee machine.

Yeah, being another inch or 2 taller would help me a bit.

That explains it and is usually the motivation for people that make comments about Marines similar to yours. It's funny how many people want to challenge a Marine, some win, most don't but all are free to try.It's something as old as the Marine Corps itself. The funny thing is that Marines have nothing to prove...they are already Marines.

Being the oh so tough marine you are I would be willing to bet a fair amount of money that you would lose a fight against an entry level Spetsnaz Commando. Your passage above reaffirms that marines are cocky and egotistical.

Frankly, I don't want to fight anyone. I don't care to prove my toughness to you or anyone else I have nothing to prove.

But but but........... you said you would all the way back up in #16.20. You said, "It's funny how many people want to challenge a Marine, some win, most don't but all are free to try." So you say I am free to try and challenge you but you wont make good on your word. I expected a more confident response from you.

I'll finish this conversation when the sun comes up. 2AM is pushing my luck, nothing much happens after 1AM usually. GN peoples:)

Isn't it rather obvious that the Iranians have had their hands in every major conflict in the region for quite some time now. I knew it, the Iranians are more trouble than they are worth let's invade them burn their western world hating country down and take their resources as the spoils of war. The Arabs are so focused on us that if the Russians decided to attack they would be down and out in a few weeks.