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Authorities say the daughter of a pastor was accidentally shot in the head at a church in St. Petersburg.
The Pinellas County Sheriff's Office was called to the Grace Connection Church Sunday at about 12:24 p.m. Sunday.
Investigators say Moises Zambrana was showing his gun in a small closet to another church member interested in buying a firearm. Zambrana reportedly took out the magazine of the Reuger 9mm weapon but did not know there was a bullet in the chamber.
Pastor's daughter accidentally shot at Fla. church
Seeded on Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:46 AM EST
Article Source: The San Francisco Chronicle- Enjoy this article? Help vote it up the 'Vine.
- Public Discussion (63)
The gun went off and fired through a wall, striking 20-year-old Hannah Kelley. She was transported to Bayfront Medical Center to undergo surgery and remained in critical condition late Sunday.
- 5 votes
1) Owning a gun is about as un-Jesus-like as possible
2) If you absolutely must own a gun, for God's sake learn how to handle one properly. The first rule of firearms handling is? A gun is always loaded.
What a pointless tragedy.
- 12 votes
You want something eye opening, Google "negligent police discharges" and you will see incident after incident. People that handle firearms everyday can't even do it without having incidents just like this, we shouldn't even think about allowing them in schools, churches, bars, libraries, etc.
This is something that just shouldn't have happened.
- 9 votes
dealing guns in a closet at church? wow...
At least some crazed shooter wasn't going to arrive to that church and find that he was unopposed, eh? That is why it's safer to allow guns in church, school, bars, but not on planes, or in courtrooms, of course.
- 2 votes
I live in Pinellas County I can be sure this will be at the top of the news for the next few days.
I have my carry permit. I took the required gun safety class.
The gun is always loaded and should be always be pointed down range.
Don't take it it out unless you are going to use it.
Try to avoid shooting innocent people in the head.
- 2 votes
Negligent discharges are just a fact of life, we had them in the Marine Corps, police departments experience them, even DEA agents have them in a classroom for of kids ( incredible video below), the question is where will those discharges occur. If we allow guns in schools, churches, bars, libraries, etc. then that's where negligent discharges are going to happen, no ifs, ands or buts about it.
I am the only one in the room professional enough, that I know of, to carry this Glock 40, Paige said just before he shot himself in the foot. He continued to deliver his presentation as he hobbled around the room, trying to turn it into a lesson for the children in the room.
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/02/dea_agent_who_shot_self_in_video_presses_forward_in_suit_against_govt.php
- 6 votes
Rodney,
It's like so obvious, you'd never even think to make a rule about it.
I mean if there's a threat to congregations, I suppose we could put up barbed wire and watch towers with .50 cals
But lets leave the artillery outside, away from the children.
Doh!
On a personal note. I learned range safety as a Hospital Corpsman from a Marine DI. I was going through Field Medical Service school, after being stationed with a Marine Unit.
Rude son of a bitch...
My weapon was pointed down range from then on. I made sure of it.
- 3 votes
It's up to state to determine where concealed weapons can and be taken. Many, for years, had restrictions in place for establishments like I mentioned above, but more and more states have relaxed those prohibitions and now guns are turning up nearly everywhere. As the number of concealed weapons increase, so will the negligent discharges.
While safety training is certainly essential, it lessens but won't eliminate these incidents. Negligent discharges are a given and 99.999999999999999999% of the time they are caused by human error.
- 4 votes
Their guns and their Buy-Bulls, that's what's really important!
- 1 vote
There's a guy I used to see on my bus ride home after work who, on a relatively short ride, would have an open can of beer going. In my mind, if you cannot wait a half hour for a beer, you have a problem.
Additionally, if you cannot wait until you are not at church to get out your gun and fondle it, you have a problem.
- 3 votes
Carry a gun in church ? What ? Was he planning on shooting the devil ?
- 2 votes
And if the rightwingnuts had their way, EVERYONE would be carrying guns all the time. Imagine the possibilities!
Actually, it's been rumored that the CIA created/has a weapon that fired "frozen" liquid hydrogen projectiles that left no trace because they melted away after impact. It's like being killed with "un"holy water...so to speak.
"The Demolished Man"
In it a main character kills someone with a bullet created from a gelatin capsule full of frozen water.
Then he tries to get away with it, while being tracked down by thought police gifted with ESP.
Hey, it's sci-fi mimicing reality...
That is just flat out bad luck for this young lady. I do hope she pulls through and recovers quickly. If she does I imagine she'll be somewhat irritated with her Paw.
I have absolutely nothing against the 2nd Amendment or an armed peasantry. In fact I heartily support such.
However:
Beat Farmers: Gun Sale at the Church
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qe01Bvvzt6U
WWJD?:
Sadly, she died Saturday morning...RIP
ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. — Authorities say a Florida pastor's daughter who was accidentally shot in the head in a church died Saturday at a hospital.
The Pinellas County Sheriff's Office says 20-year-old Hannah Kelley was pronounced dead at about 10:20 a.m. Saturday at Bayfront Medical Center.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/18/pastors-daughter-accident_n_1286605.html
So sad.....Rest in Peace.
I'm sure dad and the shooter will be praying for your soul and will take comfort that you are in heaven now....
Me, I'm sad you never got to live your life and missed so many experiences here in the real world.
- 2 votes
Another negligent discharge
The wife of a Spartanburg County sheriff's deputy was accidentally shot Saturday during a concealed weapons permit class instructed by another deputy.
Deputy Calvin :Skip" Smith
"Irresponsible Gun Owner of the Day"Deputy Calvin “Skip” Smith was showing another student in the course how to properly grip her gun when it discharged, and Crystal Smith (no relation), who was standing beside the other student on the firing line, was shot, the bullet passing through Crystal's arm and entering her side.
http://jerry611.newsvine.com/_news/2012/02/19/10452791-sheriff-deputy-accidentally-shoots-wife-of-fellow-deputy-in-concealed-weapon-class
Another negligent discharge
The gun went off in the men's bathroom at the Walmart on McKellips and Greenfield roads Saturday afternoon.
"I'm certain that our victim in this case was startled to say the least," said Wessing.
That man was standing at the urinal when police say 24-year-old Andrew Seals entered a stall wearing a western-style holster and .357-caliber antique revolver.
http://www.kctv5.com/story/16978166/gun-accidentally-misfires-inside-mesa-wal-mart-bathroom
what the flying @!$%#ing hell???
damn, it is a crying shame that people have caused pain and suffering in the past, when they have gone to Church to kill...on purpose.
now, as if that were the excuse for people coming to worship God fully armed, people are being shot because an idiot with a gun, just had to pull the damned thing to show it off to someone else, and was so incompetent that he shot and injured a young person (i DO pray this young lady recovers).
God gave us a brain, fellow humans, and it pisses me off, and quite possibly God Himself, that some of us cannot use the brains God gave us !!!
if your sooo friggin' paranoid that you cannot go to Church without your precious pistol, i recommend you save the rest of the congregation some pain and suffering, and just shoot yourself, FIRST !!!
we will all have a good cry and mourn your untimely passing, for a bit, but we will all feel much safer, now that you ain't around any longer !!!
- 5 votes
#2 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:16 AM ESTSome people shouldn't be allowed own a slingshot, but they can walk in and buy a .40 cal faster than Mitt Romney can change his position on an issue.
- 4 votes
It is not an anomaly to have weapons in a place of worship; Please read up in the first five books, Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus & Deuteronomy. There were weapons in the Tabernacle, as well as temple guards. Also David, as in King David and Solomon, placed men with weapons in the Temple.
This story is about stupidity and lack of knowledge regarding gun handling and not weapons. This could have happened in the home, it just so happened it occurred in a church.
- 1 vote
#3 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:26 AM ESTI thought the old testament was irrelevant since jesus came.....isn't that how christians get around all those silly laws in the old testament??
- 7 votes
Notthepast,
Wait a minute, really? This shooting just happened to take place in a church?
Some guy is hiding in a church closet, showing his 'pistol' to another guy...
I think the story is useful just for this imagery alone...
- 3 votes
I'm not excusing what he did, don't misunderstand. The dealing just happened to be in a church. I was addressing the weapons in a house of worship. And by the way, God is the same yesterday, today and forever. There is no disconnect between the two covenants(Old or New), you just have to know what you're reading and I'm not going to get into a theology discussion. I'm just address the fact that there has always been a means to defend and keep safe the people in God's House.
NotthePest,
Sorry to off topic disagree. There very obviously is a disconnect between the two covenants, that's why there are two. Two covenants and two faiths one arising from each promise.
They even contradict each other. One seems to seek faith by pursuing a lifetime of discipline to a series of rules.
The other seeks faith by grace.
The first informs the second, but, (supposedly surpasses it) :)
Guns in a church seems to belie the creed being taught there, at least in the case of Christians.
- 2 votes
This is my last comment 'cause I'm have to go workout. But I attend a church, a large church that has armed security. We have a large law enforcement population and they pack. Believe me no one has been shot in the service. Because of the size, the church is a target for theft and robbery and a few folks have attempted to hold up folks coming out of service and got the surprise of their life. There is nothing in scripture that states you cannot defend yourself. In fact a lot of church money has been spent on restocking things that have been stolen. By the way, we have a food bank, job training, emergency fund etc so there is no excuse.
NotthePest,
You keep leading me further. Not trying to bash. But this is kind of a central theme of mine.
How do you reconcile having so much stuff, in a church, that criminals want to come and rob it?
And because of these riches, you need to justify guns in a place of worship?
Isn't this what Christ meant when he told the wealthy man to give up all he had and follow?
- 2 votes
I'm sure they are all "praying for her".
If that works, why doesn't the guy just pray away the bad guys the pistol was supposed to protect him from???
- 4 votes
#4 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:28 AM ESTI think what we have here, is a clear case of Freudian shooting. In a closet...
Who, besides Wyatt Earp, takes a gun to church?
- 3 votes
An accident is one thing to call it.....gross negligence gives a better indicator of what actually occurred.
- 5 votes
#5 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:12 AM ESTAs the poor young woman found out, God truly moves in a mysterious way His wonders to perform.
#6 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:52 AM ESTNothing demonstrates the way of Jesus like an arms deal in a church. If one has to pack a weapon in an institution that supposedly teaches love, mercy, grace, and turning the other cheek, maybe one's level of faith isn't what it should be. Maybe those messages haven't been taken to heart.
I hope the victim recovers soon.
- 6 votes
#7 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:55 AM ESTI've long contended that the accident danger at least equals any protection a gun might offer. I'd also point out it's not how many guns are sold and owned in the U.S., but how many individual owners there are that drives gunshot statistics.
- 2 votes
#9 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:23 AM ESTsounds to me like he normally never carried it at all, he certainly didn't know how to operate it, and he probably just brought it to the church on that day because his buddy was interested in buying it.
Of course he should have left it in the car and they could've looked at it out there.
that cop, who discharged the firearm in the classroom, should have been fired that very same day.
- 1 vote
#10 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:26 AM ESTTwo guys in a church closet..."This is my weapon, this is my gun...One is for...[ BANG ! ]... oops...holy #$%@...
- 5 votes
#11 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:35 AM ESTThank GAWD for guns. I remember rightly that Isaiah said:"turn your plowshares into swords" and go fight for Jesus. (mixed testaments, but it fits snugly in with the rightwing understanding of the biblical message).
In the closet? Was he requesting a better tithe?
- 1 vote
#13 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:54 AM EST:"turn your plowshares into swords" and go fight for Jesus.
Perfect example of why people that know so little about the Bible should not "try" to use it to make a point!!! Old Testament quote .... can't ref to Jesus except as the coming Messiah ...
- 1 vote
Jim I HOPE you realize that it was a snark on my part, as I pointed out your point
- 1 vote
There are so many guns all over this country that America will eventually witness the most horrific gun-enabled crime in the history of Planet Earth.
It is inevitable, and unfortunately we will have to suffer something horrific before Americans will understand how dangerous a society can become when armed with these killing tools.
I may never understand the fascination any human can have with a gun.
- 2 votes
#15 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:44 AM ESTThat's what finally broke the camels back in Australia. The slaughter in Tasmania (see Port Arthur Massacre). We have had mass shootings here as well of course. It is when one of the shootings is politically motivated that the real trouble will begin. Still don't own a firearm and never will.
- 1 vote
The fascination with a gun, or a bow, or a sling, or a basketball, is the ability to reach out over a distance and touch something.
I didn't say kill something, because it is possible to allow this urge without death.
I enjoying target shooting with a bow. There is a rythym and depth to being able to put an arrow on a dime from yards away, time and again, without fear or expectation.
It is an important skill. It teaches internal balance. An ability to let the arrow go and achieve its own path.
Like anything else when you use it for dominion, you've destroyed the joy...
- 3 votes
Zambrana reportedly took out the magazine of the Reuger 9mm weapon but did not know there was a bullet in the chamber.
Idiot.
Never, ever point a gun at a human unless you intend to shoot them.
#16 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:55 AM ESTWhile I support the 2nd Amendment, mostly beacause of having relatives in military and law enforcement, a GUN IN CHURCH????
WHY?
Couldn't they wait to do this at home or even in the parking lot.
#17 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:04 AM ESTDeputies said Zambrana has a permit to carry a concealed weapon.
No charges have been filed.
How in the world can there be no charges filed??
who is going to pay for the medical bills church insurance? her insurance?
- 1 vote
#18 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:31 AM ESTthe case has been made over and over(by left and right) again that smoking should be banned because of the increased medical costs on health policies. why should my health cost go up because some moron doesn't know how to unload a gun?
My right to go to school, church, the mall, etc. without being in danger of becoming an accidental shooting victim should trump your right to bear arms. Keep your guns at home.
- 4 votes
#19 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:40 AM ESTI had no idea that having a concealed carry absolved the person of any responsibility.
yea but....what if...you know...someone crazy with a gun comes along and opens fire...then what? If most of us have guns...then we can stop that from happening. (devils advocate)
- 1 vote
yea but....what if...you know...someone crazy with a gun comes along and opens fire...then what?
More than likley a dozen would be shot by the 'uncrazy' folks.
More than likley a dozen would be shot by the 'uncrazy' folks.
A pointless guess.
My right to go to school, church, the mall, etc. without being in danger of becoming an accidental shooting victim should trump your right to bear arms. Keep your guns at home.
And I should not have to drive wearing a seat belt for fear of you accidentally plowing into me. Keep your car in your garage.
- 1 vote
Horrible analogy....
You don't have to wear a seat-belt. That is a personal decision that affects nobody but you.
Carrying a gun in public is a decision that can and often does affect other people.
A pointless guess.
Here we have someone trained shooting an innocent person thru a wall, 15 people pulling guns on purpose shooting at other gunfire hardly pointless.
since it was a "what if" question any responses would be a guess. So what's your point??
In fact, owning firearms is most definitely NOT "un-Jesus". Most, if not all, of Christ's desciples carried weapons. Remember the amputed ear, re-attached by Christ? Men in those societies carried knives and swords. Most palestinian men would also carry a sling, which were ubiquitous hunting weapons that almost every male could use without thought.
What I want to know is, in what alternate reality is it all right to bring a loaded pistol to church? Particularly a firearm whose owner is stupid enough to bring in live, and not check for a chambered round after he unloads the mag.
Damn, people are stupid.
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